Curse

Lowlife · Jun 14, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

http://www.break.com/index/tough-to-argue.html

take a look and draw your own conclusions
I'm not trying to have a discussion abt this
so, if you think this is right or wrong, don't tell me abt it
I've already made up my mind abt this before I saw this vid
it's time for other people to do the same

EDIT:
yes, it's a bit simplified and yes, he did leave some things out
but it boils down to the question he asks at the end

EDIT2:
please don't pay attention to the typo

Aera · Jun 14, 2007, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Yeah I saw this one before on Break, he just found a really nice way to explain what a lot of pro-do-something-about-the-damn-global-warming are thinking.

My opinion: Always the economical whining. What's more important, Earth almost blowing up, or a few dollars spent to cover an "insurance" ?

Toilet Oni · Jun 14, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

I saw it on break yesterday, but i got lost half way through it :s
Too much talking

Hopefully the global warming theory isnt true.

Lowlife · Jun 14, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

meh, as counteracting global warming would involve the creation of new products and new forms of energy
it would mean that additional labour is needed to bring forth said change
therefore, recession would not happen, just the redistribution of some wealth

AscalonWarrior · Jun 14, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Well yeah.. Lot of fuzz about global warming and I think it's kinda half true.
Over the ages, when Earth was born. Earth was a really damn hot place. We've had ice ages and warmer ages. Earth's orbit (is that the right word?) around the sun changes, it's not the same circle all the time.
If I remember correctly, every 100,000 it has changed from circle to an ellipse (not sure if that's the right word). So that might have something to do with it.
In the 1990's they talked about new ice age. It didn't come so they said that Earth is going to warm up. You see these in the News pretty often "The warmest summer/winter in 200 years" WTH? What happened 200 years ago if it was that hot? People didn't drive cars to create some more carbon dioxide.

IMHO some people are way too concerned about this. *cough*greenpeace*cough*

Lowlife · Jun 14, 2007, 01:18 PM // 13:18

safronlove · Jun 14, 2007, 02:09 PM // 14:09

This is much talked subject only need to take strong corrective step from our side without eying from politicians to make or implement strong strategy for.

DreamRunner · Jun 15, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

I saw this and yeah its pretty bad. Why? He put two extreme's and then made one look better than the other, so you should look at the better one. So you end up thinking on what might happen and that column A is better.

Think of it like this: In column B, he only knows that there would be some environmental changes, thats it and then added the bad effect like political, social and all other crap that could happen too.

But in column A, he only said "makes the 1930s a catwalk" and only have a economic problems. What about the other problems, where did they go?

See? He didn't put in the social, political or health problems he said that column B would have. Why not? column A only looks better but in fact it could be worse. We just don't know!

And lowlife:The statistics you show is that the earth is warming up, but do you know if that its actually humans that have increased the temperature of the earth? Or influenced it? If so, how much?

Lowlife · Jun 15, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

uhm, maybe you should read what both graphics say
ofc, I can't be 100% certain that there is a connection between the rise of temperatures and the rise of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, since I'm not a scientist, but I can look at the evidence that's being provided and draw conclusions for myself

now, shall we take a look at some of the things that cause carbon dioxide and other heat trapping gasses to reach higher levels?
I think yes

-burning of fossil fuel
-deforestation (plants convert carbondioxide into oxygen)
-polution of the seas (plankton converts carbondioxide into oxygen)
-gross overconsumation of meat products (clicky)

ofc, there are natural phenomenons that might have caused substances that act as heat trappers to be spewed into the atmosphere
(volcanoes would be one of the thing that springs to mind here)

EDIT:
it's friggin 5.33 I'm tired, I should be in bed already
if I forgot nething important, please, blame it on my tiredness

Dan0xxx · Jun 15, 2007, 10:45 AM // 10:45

lol it makes me laugh how gullable people can be...

Has anyone seen any real hard evidence that CO2 is actually causing climate change??? I havn't, although from what WE have been ALLOWED to see it does seem as though CO2 is the problem...but i have heard and seen some very clear evidence that the rise in temperature is NOT being caused by CO2 but instead CO2 is rising BECAUSE of the rise in temperature.

Even if it is CO2 thats causing it the amount of carbon polluting the atmospheres from things we cannot do anything about is immense...even if we produced 90% less carbon it would only delay the inebitable...ive heard volcanoes etc... give off more CO2 than us...and the worst one...Seas and Oceans...

IF climate change is being caused by CO2 emmissions then we're stuffed...although ive not seen any real proof that it is because of CO2...

The reason i say IF CO2 is causing climate change is because ive seen more evidence against the fact than for it...which makes sense...IF climate change is happening and we have no control over it(which quite possibly could be the case) then it makes sense that the government tell us its because of our CO2 emmissions etc...It could be a cover-up...and could so easily happen...people listen to their peers...we believe what they say because there seems to be no other viable explanation...some people do stop and think, but not enough...if more people did and realised that CO2 emmissions are a scapegoat and that its quite possible climate change will happen unless we find the real solution..

At the moment we are trying sooo hard to reduce CO2, BUT what if our attempts are in vain...what if all along the carbon was not the problem...what if climate change is happening just because it is...IF this is the case then years of work have been wasted on a lost cause...when we could have been searching for the REAL reason for climate change!

Now i don't want to start an argument or anything, i am simply putting across my views....if people read this and agree with some of the things i say, and STOP and THINK, GREAT! If you read this and don't agree, Fine...BUT if you don't even give this a thought, you should...

Thank you

PS: If you this sounds like bit of a conspiracy theory like the many others, your right...BUT there is one key difference, this is an important issue and is based around fact. Oh and i'm not a hippy

Dan0xxx · Jun 15, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Hmmm from the first graph i can see that over a period of around 400k years CO2 has risen and fallen over a period of around 100k years each rise...have you thought that perhaps this is still goind to happen??? its a pattern and although the at 2004 it appears to have risen a very large amount(almost double previous rises) it IS likely to drop again in a few thousand years

DreamRunner · Jun 15, 2007, 01:23 PM // 13:23

So in fact, there is no evidence of a connection between human output to the rise in temperature in the earth that you can give. I'm not surprised.

You want to know why? Because we can't! I'm sure you know that there are variables that we have in the earth that we can't always keep getting accounts for.

Here is a small list.

Changes in volcanic emissions
Changes in CO2 absorption and emission due to changes in plant coverage.
Changes in earths magnetic field
Changes in particles that come from the sun
Changes in plant coverage eg.deforestation

The earth is simply to big. Its an open system. It is not possible in this case to even have hard numbers on CO2 venting, but only estimates and speculation.

Lowlife · Jun 15, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowlife

meh
everyone is entitled to their own oppinion (except Cubans)

oh all evidence I can find on there being a link between global warming and greenhouse gasses are articles that don't have ne actual hard numbers included in them
but when I was in school, (I actually had courses that included 17-20 hours of chemistry and biology a week) one of my teachers (who was a biology/chemistry teacher) explained to me that there actually is a link between the so called greenhouse gasses and global warming

neway, as far as I'm concerned, this discussion has reached it's end, since I won't be able to change your oppion and neither will you be able to change mine.

Lowlife · Jun 27, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

http://my.break.com/media/view.aspx?ContentID=315835

it's not containing hard facts or numbers
but, it atleast has some statements of leading scientific organisations
for you non believers out there

the explosions and stuff are really annoying imho
but they will help to keep peoples attention on the vid

ooh and a good excercise for people would be trying to name the reactions that occur